Sherman has launched an excellent Beginners Guide To Mastering Web Basics group on Facebook

Unlike most Facebook groups, Sherman has already uploaded some real juicy video content.

Aug 30, 2007 Thurs: Uploaded 15 Videos (Web Publishing Basics:601 Series)
Tip: Look for this starting video: “Web Publishing | 601.1 – Quickstart | 03’15″

Aug 28, 2007 Tues: Uploaded 9 Videos (Graphics Basics:501 Series)
Tip: Look for this starting video: “Graphics Basics | 501.1 – Quickstart | 01’27″

Aug 24, 2007 Fri: Uploaded 8 Videos (Sourcing Stock Photography: 401 Series)
Tip: Look for this starting video: “Stock Photography | 401.1 – Quickstart | 00’47″

Aug 23, 2007 Thurs: Uploaded 10 Videos (FTP: 301 Series)
Tip: Look for this starting video: “FTP | 301.1 – Quickstart | 01’11″

Aug 22, 2007 Wed: Uploaded 14 Videos (Hosting: 201 Series)
Tip: Look for this starting video: “Hosting | 201.1 – Quickstart | 02’14″

Aug 21, 2007 Tues: Uploaded 7 Videos (Domain Registration: 101 Series)
Tip: Look for this starting video: “Domain Registration | 101.1 – Quickstart | 01’01″

We have videos on these topics:
- Domain Registration
- Hosting
- Transferring Files (FTP: File Transfer Protocol)
- Sourcing Stock Photography
- Editing Graphics with Macromedia Fireworks
- Creating Simple Web Pages with Macromedia Dreamweaver
- Locating creative, graphics and templates
- Setting up your first WordPress blog
and many more…

Tinu recently has also launched a group on “sharing”

Name:
Open For Web Business
Type:
Internet & Technology – Websites
Description:
Let’s commit to more sharing of resources, links, and contacts for the benefit of all. Teach or learn the science of web traffic through sharing. Be Collaborative, Open, Transparent, Social – and Celebrate it!

A few days ago I was chatting to Tinu about her new ebook “The Complete Facebook UnHyped Networking for Traffic PDF Guide” and she offered to setup a special offer for my readers, as she is a regular herself.
I actually declined, not because I didn’t feel the book would be a valuable resource to many of my readers struggling to work out what all the fuss is about Facebook, and how to go about profiting from it, but because it takes a fair amount of work to setup a special landing page, and I didn’t think sales would justify the effort.

Tinu is constantly researching and networking on Facebook, and has had some reasonable results, and made some great contacts. Whilst you might not think it is important, the ebook places a great emphasis on applications – not the ones that annoy the hell out of you when every one of your friends invites you to join, but the ones that will help drive traffic back to your primary website, preferably a blog.

Currently at 82 pages, it is a solid read for beginners, and there are a couple of tips in there for more experienced users that they might have missed, plus a useful contact for a discount on Facebook application development (yes, Tinu has been doing some effective networking)

She also gives good reasons why you might not want to jump on the Facebook application bandwagon too soon.

The most valuable benefit of the package is most certainly one of the bonuses, consulting time with Tinu.
Part of Tinu’s business has been analysing web traffic methods for years and you get to pick her brain.

The ebook might not contain a huge amount of information for well networked, Web2.0, social media marketing experts, but then again most of the “social media marketing experts” are not internet marketing trained.

One of the problems with most articles about Social Media Marketing is that the practitioners have very little experience with traffic funnels, so whilst they might know how to get traffic from Digg, they might not have experience in converting that traffic into subscribers and customers.

I think Tinu’s lifetime updates to her ebook are going to be interesting, because she looks on social media as a way to generate subscribers and money, not just a few links.

The backdoor discount ;)

Sherman is building up a notification list for Facebook Marketing information which will be well worth signing up for and as a special incentive he has a special offer available on Tinu’s new ebook for those that sign up.

I am not making any money at all linking through to Sherman’s new email list, or his excellent Facebook group, and neither Sherman or myself are making any money from Tinu’s ebook.

I have benefited from both Sherman’s and Tinu’s information in the past, and want you to benefit as well.

The BlogCatalog REST (REpresentational State Transfer) API allows the retrieval of public user and blog data based on a set of input parameters. This page outlines the various types of requests that can be executed and provides example requests and responses.

I had a play around with it early today for the first time and a couple of bugs were cleaned up since then and I think developers will find the terms of use fairly unrestricted.

I have actually suggested some additional changes to the terms, so I wouldn’t assume they are set in stone.

I also spotted on the forums that Blogcatalog are giving away free platinum memberships to people who use the APIs creatively.

Other Blogcatalog Changes Over The Last Week

• You can now search the forums for previous discussions before submitting a question
• There is no longer a need to provide Blogcatalog a link to identify you as the owner of your blog, this can be achieved with meta tag verification.
• You can now make modifications to your profiles without having your blog added to the moderation queue of new submissions. (improve those landing pages)
• The Blogcatalog broadcast system is now available to everyone
• Blogcatalog now create their own thumbshots for higher quality, and possibly higher reliability

Specific Dislosure – I do some consulting with Blogcatalog on a very much low key, part time basis, though I also give coverage to their competitors and try to remain impartial

Its Not The Quality Of The Product

I have experienced some of Jacks training in the past, and it is always phenomenal, he gives so much valuable information and presents it in a way that is easy for anyone to understand.
I have absolutely no doubt that Social Power Linking will be no exception to the rule.

It Is Not Philosophical

Jack and myself currently have the same philosophical approach to building websites, and in fact I am fairly sure with his Authority Site Centre that he built and promotes with his partners he uses many of the same plugins as I do on a regular basis, only his team sets up the blogs for you on their own servers.

It Is Certainly Not Price

This is a physical product that will be shipped to your door

• 6 Hours of Video on 8 DVDs
• PDFs of the Slides
• PDF Fast Start Guide
• 3 CD of the same material to listen to in your car

Now most “online gurus”, most of which have half, or even less, of Jack’s 10 years of online experience (and often propose some shady tactics) would start off with a short term promotion of their product for $497 or more, and quickly raise the price to the best part of $1000

Now don’t get me wrong, some of those more expensive packages are worth their weight in gold, because they come from people with a similar level of experience to Jack, and honestly I am sure Jack’s latest offering is worth far more than the measly price he is charging.

Quite often these days you would be expecting to pay $67 for an ebook, with the price raising to $97 within a few days for something that might take you 1hr to read. Sometimes again that is worth it, if you already have a successful business, and one tip could make an existing traffic funnel profitable, or allow you to use a new one and make a profit.

This is a steal for only $149 plus $20 for shipping anywhere in the world… yes even to the Far east, Australia, or to me in Poland.

Take a look at Social Power Linking for yourself

I Don’t Know All Jack’s Strategies

Whilst Jack has a very similar philosophy for site building, I am sure I would pick up a few tricks that would make a total cost of $169 worthwhile.

It Not The Sales Letter

Jack has been known to have some pretty long sales letters in the past, but this one is only about 4 or 5 pages, tells you exactly what you get in Social Power Linking for such a small purchase price, and gives a quick overview of the contents of each CD.

There is not a testimonial in sight

Why? Jack honestly doesn’t need them, he has been in the business so long and is so highly respected. He is also quite sure that his offer is so compelling combined with the feedback his affiliates will give him in reviews such as this that any testimonials will just be unnecessary fluff that will scare away potential customers.

Jack knows full well that in some niches PPC is just not a viable consideration unless you have massive profit margins only suitable for those who have already learnt how to play Google’s Adword’s fiddle to perfection.
Fortunately there are ways to capture free traffic from search engines, and Jack is a master at not only gaining traffic, but teaching others how to do it in whatever niche they are in.

No Problems With Payment

There was a time that many residents of far-flung countries didn’t have the possibility to pay for products using Paypal but times are changing. Paypal makes it easy and if you haven’t got an account then there is always a credit card.

(note: in the past Jack used 2checkout for one of his programs I was a member, and I had some problems – Paypal really does make a difference for me)

Guarantee – You Had Better Believe It!

Not only do you get your money back, they will also pay you a little on top, though actually this is a little confusing.

They don’t refund the $20 shipping charge, but they do pay you $22 on top of the purchase price of the goods. You would only actually gain $2.

On top of that you would also have to pay for the goods to be shipped back, so if you do feel compelled to ask for a refund, you might actually be a few dollars poorer, but that is the same with any product you purchase mail order or over the internet.

So Why Am I Not Buying?

No it is not what you are thinking, I am not looking to get a free copy, I really would part with my cash right now.

I am an unusual rare case, and even if Jack offered it to me for free, including free shipping I would refuse.

Part of my old job in the computer games and software industry here in Poland used to be import/export. I have been through living hell with Polish customs so many times the very thought of having to handle what is now minor import paperwork, and then only sometimes, just gives me the shivers.

When I started my online business, one of the primary reasons was to get away from some of the mundane and sometimes highly stressful aspects of international trade.
My wife working for her father’s apparel business still goes through this almost daily and although things have greatly improved since Poland joined the European Community, I still have what I can only look on as “import phobia”

Thus I am only interested in digital products

Don’t Let My Reservations Stop You

Honestly, my phobia is my problem, not yours.

Physical products are shipped around the world daily, and if they are for personal use they most often sail straight through without having any customs paperwork or charges even here in Poland, well unless you are buying an $80,000 car, a motor cruiser or $4000 hifi system (yeah I still get requests from family friends to help with such purchases, and more often than not I avoid it, even though it would pay well just to make a few phone calls)

$169 Flat Rate (including shipping) = no brainer?

For some people yes, for others who are not making any money online and things are a little tight financially back at home, Social Power Linking is not for you. I would in that case suggest you read Jack’s Authority Black book, and Michelle’s Web 2.0 Traffic guide that I mentioned just a few hours ago.

I actually deliberately wrote about the free alternatives first so that I could link through to them in this post.

I deliberately wrote this as a separate post because just like Jack, I know a little bit about traffic generation and how well I can rank for products that I discuss that I believe are of value to my readers.

Hopefully I can persuade Jack to make a digital version on Social Linking Power available for fellow “import phobia” sufferers as I am sure I will learn something new.

Yes, I did deliberately use “Social Linking Power” instead of Social Power Linking” and I suppose I should also mention Socialpowerlinking.com – there are currently around 2000 references to this product in Google, I wonder how I will rank in the SERPs for “Social Power Linking“

If spending $97 on an ebook is a major financial commitment, don’t read any further

Ok, for the rest of you lets get on with the review…

• There is no hype in the sales letter
• There is no hype in the ebook
• There is no hype in this review

Another Web 2.0 Social Media Ebook?

After you read the sales letter that is probably the impression you will have, and in fact you will still have that impression shortly after you start reading the ebook.

Here are some interesting facts for you

Pages 56 (+bonus guide on video, crib sheets and tables)

In fact those few references that were included were mainly in facts and figures like usage data.

So What is this Ebook Talking About?

Traffic Secrets

Whilst many people don’t appreciate the value of ebooks, claiming that the information is out there if you look for it, or join and participate in various forums, that isn’t strictly true.
We live in an age of information overload. Quite often different ideas and new ideas take a long time to rise to the surface, or never make it, not because the ideas are not valuable, or supported by hard evidence.

I often see “specialists” in SMO (Social Media Optimization) and SMM (Social Media Marketing) claim that their methods and expensive services can work in virtually any market place.
I am not going to dispute those claims, but that very statement tends to drown out other methods that could be equally effective for traffic generation that might be equally, or potentially more suitable for certain markets.

Traffic Strategy

The fundamental value from this ebook is that it challenges you to examine your social media marketing strategy, and optimize it for best effect.
This is nothing to do with writing better headlines, or coercing top users at Digg, Reddit or Netscape to add you as a friend and to plug your content.

Whilst Laura’s intention was to target the ebook to beginners in social media marketing, in many ways consultants in social media marketing should read it because it will place a new perspective on information and strategies you think you already know.

Professional Writing

Laura has written a lot of ebooks as a ghost writer, and this isn’t her first outing in publishing an ebook in her own name. This ebook oozes quality production with footnotes on almost every page and links to resources that back up the data and strategies she proposes.

The professional tone may also be one of its shortcomings – The Stampede Secret isn’t a light refreshing read, or suitable for people who prefer information in short 400 word chunks.

To get the most benefit you really will have to read through the ebook a couple of times taking notes – in some ways it reminds me of some of the more serious marketing reports you might receive from Marketing Sherpa.

Recommended Audience

Ideal

You are already making money, and probably think you know everything there is about SMM. You might even skim read the ebook once and think there is nothing new, but if you take the time to sit down and read it slowly a couple of times, you will pick up a new perspective.

• Marketing consultants
• Blogging consultants
• Business owners in niche markets
• Owners of Virtual Real Estate in Niche markets including blogging networks
• VCs and Angel Investors
• Researchers
• Journalists

Possible

Beginners who have tried SMM for their niche websites and blogs with little success, and who have money to invest to accelerate their learning process.

Don’t Buy It

This isn’t an ebook showing you the secret route to success and instant wealth. This isn’t something you should spend your last meal ticket on for that one chance of financial independence.

If the price of the ebook is more than you would spend on a night out, think again.

It will probably take you 3 hours to read this ebook unless you have been studying various fast reading techniques – if 3 hours of your time is worth less than $97, this ebook probably isn’t ideal.

You Can Find This Information Elsewhere

I honestly haven’t gone searching for all this information elsewhere, but I am sure somewhere among the millions of pages of content that are created on the internet every day, you would find at least 90% of this information. The value is in the way it is collated and presented.

Just as an example some of what is discussed in the ebook you could find on my blog, and potentially in more depth, especially in regards to things like tagging. Laura even quoted from one of my articles and linked through, highlighting that people should read the article, and the valuable discussion afterwards.

Unique Information

Analysis of one of Laura’s niche sites in a very competitive market (Acne Treatment) with real proof of traffic numbers from Quantcast – not just screenshots.
This isn’t a high traffic site, it is very much a simple niche website, running on WordPress that anyone could create and generate some income – I wouldn’t expect Laura to expose her most profitable sites.

Discussion of traffic strategy – some social media consultants charge $5000 per day to help you formulate a social media marketing action plan. Most of the consultants concentrate on the search engine optimization benefits, and not how to participate in social networks to find real customers.

How to Write an Ebook – whilst this isn’t one of the lessons taught, the production quality and style is something to learn from.

I am going to finish off with a few select quotes from the ebook that don’t give too much away, but at the same time highlight how much different the overall perspective of the information is.

If anything is going to hold you back in being a fore-runner in the new web, the need to measure and record every click or movement to and on your site would be the culprit. The internet is changing at such a rapid rate that controlling and metering every change you make has the potential to stall your success.

Uptight control and playing it safe is seldom the stance of a pioneer. It is the pioneer who wins in profits, fame and visitor traffic – not the followers and whiners. I am not guaranteeing success by any means, nor am I advising you to risk your life savings on some promising new start up, but I am saying that the occasional ‘play your cards or go home’ attitude is one of the keys to success.

Web 2.0 is a very creative, innovative and fluid environment. Most Web 2.0 sites cannot be put in a box and measured in any consistent and reliable fashion – they are simply too young. There is a level of intuition at launch, an element of change and growth throughout the life of the web property, and yet another level of intuition used for assessment when determining a reasonable sale value.

Conclusion

No hype, no bonus, though if I do see enough interest and sales I might write up a supplement to the ebook going into some of the topics in more depth, especially on the benefits of tagging.
I would probably make that available free to all Laura’s customers.
I may even go into some of the topics that Laura has missed – Web 2.0 grows at an alarming rate, and there is a limit to how fast you can research strategies enough to be able to offer conclusive proof.

Disclaimers are unheard of in most ebooks, but Laura takes this to a new professional level, this is just part of it.

Information within this report may be speculation and are therefore within the meaning of the securities litigation reform act of 1995 and contain verbiage such as ‘expected’, ‘anticipated’, ‘estimated’, projected’, ‘believed’ or variations of those.

I have actually been chucking a few emails backwards and forwards to Laura over the last couple of days, and I thought I would include one small excerpt.

You know you really rock! You don’t even ‘know’ me and you’ve given me so
much of your time. It’s a dying art in our world.

I am not going to include my exact reply, because it mentioned names of people that if internet marketers were actively using LinkedIn, would certainly appear between myself and Laura as shared contacts, and over the last 2 years I have certainly dropped by her blog a number of times.

This comment also shows the benefit of “paying it forward” and the value of providing information for free to eventually reach your goals.

There are quite a few expert marketers who normally charge their clients a great deal of money who I correspond with on a regular basis, simply because they have gained value from what I have offered for free.

One of the bonuses that Laura provides is some very specific email support – she states that she will answer 2 emails from her customers, and highlights the importance formulating those questions to receive maximum benefit. She is not going to exclude pleas for help, and win / win relationships can develop to extend the level of help provided.

I have always been happy to answer emails regarding the products I review both before someone makes a buying decision and afterwards, or you can just ask here in the comments.

I gained a great deal of value from Stampede Secrets. I might not realise that value immediately because I already employ many of the strategies and techniques discussed, and it is hard to quantify the effect any changes might have on my income.
Reading the ebook has certainly helped me highlight the action I should be taking to revitalise some of the niche websites I have had for a long time and hardly ever modify, because each is bringing in a small trickle of income.
Laura has helped me realise that it is possible to employ a few extra traffic strategies for these niche websites that could turn the flow of traffic into a gushing fountain.

Disclaimer:- I am one of the few people who received a free review copy of this ebook, possibly because I offered to take a look before publishing, that Laura reads my blog, and because she quoted me in the ebook. To be honest I might not have purchased the ebook just based upon the sales page. That is the value of affiliate marketing in pre-selling, or explaining the benefits of a product in an ethical manner

I use a few of them myself, but picked up some great sites to check out, especially Wufoo, and I am sick and tired of contact form results ending up in my spam folder on Gmail, despite being sent using my own email address, whitelisting myself, and dragging form results out of the bin multiple times.

What would be better than Robert Scoble’s OPML file?

The Best Search Technology

Google Custom Search Engine gives great search results, and quite often gives better results than the main index.

Alister Cameron has just launched his new Scoble Search

It does give more current results on Technology news than Google might provide from the main search, though it doesn’t cover as many sources.

Robert Scoble Megite Meme

Megite have had a meme for Robert Scoble for some time, based upon the same OPML file.

It provides a great alternative to Robert’s Shared Feed from Google Reader. You don’t get Robert’s top picks, but the top picks based upon the people Robert reads. It is maybe slightly broader content, but it is automatic, and works at times that Robert is taking some time off to read his email.

Custom Google Toolbar Button

Of course it is a total coincidence that I happen to have a Google Toolbar button that points directly to Alisters custom search, and includes the Scobleizer Meme on Megite.

Robert Scoble – Custom Search | Megite Meme | Toolbar Button

But then my readers might not believe in coincidence ;)

It looks like Megite have joined MyBlogLog

Actually Megite would be a great purchase for someone very soon, probably more so than Digg in many ways.

Also you can change how the MyBlogLog widget displays on your blog with some more attractive CSS.

But it is becoming devalued

Recently Andy Beal decided to issue a free Zune MP3 player to a member of his MyBlogLog community. I actually thought this was a good idea to encourage people to use the service, as Andy has a high readership. Thus I did link through to him in my post “MyBlogLog – Antisocial Behaviour?”.

Shoemoney in the comments challenged Andy to a contest, and I pointed out that spamming your way to a large community isn’t highly regarded. Shoe at that time had already “contacted” 5000+ people in MyBlogLog, and that number later hit 8000+ people.

Today Shoe wrote about his challenge, but seems to be claiming that any success he is going to have will be due to his female picture. There is no mention of the fact that he also contact spammed 8000 people, and if you now look at his contact profile, he has since removed 95% of those contacts to hide the evidence, so that he doesn’t look like a “contact whore” as this practice is often described.

Whether inviting to share contacts with 8000+ people is regarded as spam is subjective. Shoe obviously thinks it isn’t as in Andy’s comments he said to me.

Andy – stfu dude I never sent anyone spam messages get a fucking clue idiot. Do you look at the people I add who thank me for adding them? Do you see ONE person complain that I spammed them? I went through and hand picked contacts so what its a social environment Im not spamming messages or websites so don’t make it sound like I am.

How eloquent…

If you look at the comments on his MyBlogLog profile, that he can moderate, there was certainly some confusion from the people responding.

OliverG wrote

Hi, why do you add me as a contact? Have we met? Have we communicated? This has a touch of SPAM.

Robin Wrote

Hey, thanks for visiting my site. Love some feedback. Robin

From what I can see, Shoemoney was adding one new contact at least every 20 seconds. Did he really visit a site?

So I did see a spam complaint, and you can hardly claim to be selecting sites if you are requesting contacts that fast.
When you request a contact, emails are sent to people maybe depending on how your account is configured.

Andy Beal has responded to the challenge today.

The problem is this challenge is not about sex vs zune, but social media & incentives vs spam.

Yes I agree that sex sells on the internet, but this test isn’t a way to prove it.

If Shoe wanted to prove it, he should have sent the spam requests with his own portrait, and started a second new blog for Nicole with some low quality content, and also spammed 8000 people with that account, and see whether Nicole gained more contacts than he did.

Why Plutoed?

The American Dialect Society (ADS) has voted “plutoed” as its 2006 word of the year. The verb, meaning ” to demote or devalue someone or something”, beat “climate canary” (an organism or species whose poor health or declining numbers hint at a larger environmental catastrophe on the horizon) in a run-off vote to secure the crown, although the latter did win the “most useful” word category.

Apparently the “Word of the Year” as reported on The Register.

If this is looked on as a viable tactic for MyBlogLog, the next stage will be MyBlogLog adding scripts. Who knows, maybe such a thing exists already. Maybe that is what Shoe was using.

It would be easy to scrape every contact from MyBlogLog. You would then create an add link for each member, and automatically visit the link.

MyBlogLog would then certainly be Plutoed.

Contacts in MyBlogLog

Adding someone as a contact in MyBlogLog does 2 major things

1. It sends them an email message
2. It allows your contact information to be viewable by them

It also shows you as a contact/friend on their page, which might bring in a little more short term traffic until everyone else does the same.

Communities in MyBlogLog

1. Joining a Community doesn’t send an email
2. People who join a community have often also visited the site

Longterm, the communities you join might also provide an aggregated RSS feed, which is something I am looking forward to.

MyBlogLog Strategy

I have seen lots of people with 1000+ contacts, and less than 50 members of their community. It is obvious that these people are adding every new member they come across as a contact.
Being added as a contact is meaningless, and it shows.

There are other people with 400+ contacts and because they have some decent though not unique content, they have gained 200+ community members by this method, but very few subscribers to their feed.

MyblogLog – My Antisocial Tactics

If someone adds me as a contact, and I have had some contact with them on my blog in comments, or have commented on their blog, I generally reciprocate. I probably need to go back through my contacts as since I have joined a fair few people from Mybloglog have become regular readers. It is easy to get hold of me though via my contact form, and that ensures delivery as my contact form is white-listed.

If I join someone’s MyBlogLog community, it means I enjoy their content, and in most cases have added their blog to my RSS Reader. I have also joined the community of most of the blogs that are in my RSS Reader already.

Genuine Figures from MyBlogLog

A large percentage of the members of my community, really are members of my community and read my blog on a regular basis.

I am up to 69 community members – that doesn’t currently place my blog within the top50 MyBlogLog communities, but my community is growing fairly rapidly as is my readership.
Unlike many top communities I didn’t start with 1000s of members, and so far haven’t offered any incentives for people to join. Talking of which, Andy Beal is offering a Free Microsoft Zune for joining his community.

Andy has probably 60x as many RSS subscribers compared to me, and currently not quite twice as many MyBlogLog community members, so I am not doing to badly. Marketing Pilgrim has 116 members currently, compared to my 69 members.
The RSS subscriber numbers are a guesstimate, based on his Alexa rating and the Alexa of similar blogs.

Taking Part in MyBlogLog

Visiting new blogs, leaving relevant comments both on the blog, and within the comments on MyBlogLog seems to be the best way to promote your blog using MyBlogLog. The more interesting and relevant your comment, the more likely it will encourage targetted visitors.

Conclusion

My ultimate aim is an increase in subscribers, and mass adding of people as contacts just doesn’t currently seem to encourage either people joining a community to be part of a community, or RSS subscriptions.

Based upon my observations, my strategy of not mass adding contacts seems to still work. Growth is slower but more genuine, and hopefully results in more long-term traffic.

The MyBlogLog community blog covered this subject in part before Christmas, looking for user feedback to curb the tendency for spam.

My suggestions included

1. Limit the number of contact adds to 5 per day per account. That will prevent mass spamming and would make it difficult to manage as a technique.

2. Introduce the idea of “active community” – how many of the community members actually revisit the community they joined. I am sure you already have the statistics for this

3. Improve the stats so I can see the conversion rate of readers to subscribers (partner up with Feedburner to do this with some really smart custom feed flares)